Tanya Savas - Collective Carpentry
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[00:00:00]

James: Hello and welcome to Marketing Passive House, the podcast where we hear from architects, designers, builders, suppliers, owners, and other experts in the passive house and high performance building space. We'll be talking about what's working and what's needed when it comes to marketing buildings that meet or aspire to the passive house standard. I'm your host, James Turner, and today I'm joined by Tanya Savas in sales with Collective Carpentry. welcome to the show.

Tanya: Thanks so much, James. Happy to be here.

James: Excellent. So, uh, before we get into it, and for people who are just meeting you for the first time, could you share a little bit about who you are, what you do, and how you started on your passive house journey?

Tanya: Absolutely. So I'm Tanya. I'm with Collective Carpentry and we are an offsite fabricator of passive house structural enclosures. Um, so typically we're providing the floors. Roofs and mainly the super insulated wall systems, um, that are also airs sealed and [00:01:00] weather sealed by our US based installation crew.

Tanya: Um, so unlike a lot of companies, we actually have our own dedicated crew and they also work on our design side when they're not out in the field installing. And so we're providing these passive house level enclosures, um, to projects across. The Western US in eight states so far and growing, and three Canadian provinces,

James: Sweet. So with the company, you. Work on existing? Do you work on only passive house projects? I guess that's kind of like a, an interesting place to

Tanya: We don't, um, we don't work on only past spouse projects, though most of our projects, if not certified. Are going to perform to the level of passive house standards. So our company came about 10 years ago. Uh, the founders come from design, timber framing, and general contracting [00:02:00] backgrounds. Um, so they were, they.

Tanya: We're based out of in Vermeer, British Columbia, and they were general contractors up there working outside, doing your typical site framing. Their hands were cold. That's the story that kind of they like to tell. And so they, they started getting pretty interested in this whole offsite indoor quality controlled built environment building style.

Tanya: So they had done some research on that and they moved into a small shop in 2016 and started Prefabricating. And so they had always had an interest in and been. Trying to build high performance onsite. Um, but when they brought things inside, they put a huge focus on, on building these passive house level assemblies.

Tanya: Um, so certainly up there in the kunis there's tons of cold climate. And so they wanted to develop a wall system that addressed that. So kind of our bread and butter wall system is an R 55 assembly. [00:03:00] It's a double stud wall. Um, and so your exo layer is carrying your insulation from us. It's dense bloom cellulose in our shop.

Tanya: Um, we're using all high performance weather membranes and air barriers. Um, mainly supplied by 4, 7, 5 building supply. And, um. So we are providing that R 55 wall. We then introduced an R 40 wall type for folks in other climates that have a little bit less, uh, insulation requirement, um, for your super insulation for passive house.

Tanya: And then we finally introduced, um. A, we call it our code wall but still addressing a lot of passive house issues and really designed to be implemented in more larger massed buildings to create some accessibility for institutional and commercial projects that may wanna go passive house, but don't have the budget or the need to implement a, you know, a R 40 or R 55 [00:04:00] wall.

Tanya: So back to your question. Although not all of our projects are certified, they are typically all using one of those three wall systems, um, appropriate to that climate zone for passive house. And any time a client is ordering a product from us and getting installation services from our crew, which happens about 95% of the time, um, they are going to get whether they care about it or not.

Tanya: Airtight and weather tight enclosure with. Usually a lot of insulation.

James: Nice. Ah, yeah. I feel like that's such a, I've heard the, the term like a stealth passive house where builders will essentially build a client to passive house, but just never talk about it. which I kind of get right. Like it's, it sounds like a whole thing. And if you're just like, oh, well, how would if we just build you a high quality house that airtight and well insulated and has good energy? They're like, yeah, yeah, that sounds [00:05:00] great.

Tanya: I like that you say that because, uh, there's a critical point at which it is not stealthy and

James: Hmm.

Tanya: it is often the point at which SEO marketing and maybe some of our marketing efforts, um, in getting our product out to a wider audience. Are not effective, um, for clients who, uh, mainly homeowners. Who don't understand the difference, one between penalized and modular.

Tanya: Um, so we have a lot of folks that will search modular and end up at our site, and a lot of those folks are looking for the most cost effective solution. Same thing with the search term prefab. A lot of folks are looking for, you know, they're getting a quote from a site builder and it's too high. And then they're searching prefabrication and they're seeing us pop up.

Tanya: They're not reading [00:06:00] anything else on our website because that's what people do these days. They don't read.

James: Nope.

Tanya: and, and so then they call me and you know, they say We wanna build this house in Bozeman and it's gonna cost 1.2 million and we only have 600,000. And, um, so we're calling you for a prefabricated solution, and that's, that's where it becomes un stealthy is when I start to talk to them about the real cost of having a, a super insulated all wood based structure.

Tanya: You know, foam is often a cheaper. Pathway to getting insulation value. It's not a clean pathway. It's not one that our company is interested in implementing. Um, even though our product is more expensive, we feel that the environmental benefits and the health and comfort benefits of a wood-based product are worth spending the extra money on.

Tanya: And kind of our perspective. And I think the perspective of a lot of architects that we work with who are strongly [00:07:00] invested in passive house is that. The client's value system is going to dictate whether or not this solution and a pass pass is, is accessible to them. So if the client is concerned with their health, their safety, their comfort, the environment sustainability, then they are going to make that executive call that, okay, maybe we'll sacrifice having a 5,000 square foot house and we'll have a 3000 square foot house.

Tanya: That we can have this really high quality building enclosure and building science implemented in for, you know, 2000 square feet to 1500. Okay, we're gonna give up that huge blazing wall, you know, and, um, and design this to passive house because we feel this is the right thing. But ultimately that has to come from whoever the end user client is.

Tanya: Right. Whoever is, is at the, at the end of the day paying. For the structure to be, to be [00:08:00] constructed. So it is very infrequent that we can stealthily build a passive house. Um, but uh, but certainly I think where it does come into play and, and a lot of the business that we get is driven by architects.

Tanya: And so architects who are often the first point of contact for the client the ones who are committed to passive house, so are really wonderful partners. Um, the Artisans Group out of Tumwater, Washington, we do a ton of projects with them. They, and we have been floating in the same passive house circles for a while, and so we've been working together for a while.

Tanya: We actually just constructed, um. They're new. They, they went into a development foray and, um, added to their current office space. Um, so they added additional office space, both for themselves and to rent out with six live units above. And they actually hired us to [00:09:00] construct that building for them. Um, one of the principals, RUSA also has a home that was collective carpentry enclosure.

Tanya: So folks like that who. Are committed to passive house from the architectural side. They get calls from clients who know nothing about passive house and they introduce passive house on every single meeting with their clients, and they strongly steer their clients in that direction. And oftentimes, I think it is kind of a qualification too, where, you know, I'm sure they do take clients who weren't interested in passive house design, but I'm guessing that.

Tanya: And, you know, because they're firms, firms like the Artisans Group and others that we work with, um, are known for passive house. That's one of the reasons ultimately that a client is either gonna select them or go somewhere else

James: Right, right. Yeah. Like that's the in the first place, is

Tanya: well, [00:10:00] and it may not drive the inquiry. But if someone comes to them and they, and they haven't read and they don't know that it's passive house, right? There's plenty of people who are. Seeking passive house architects and come to them that way. But if they don't know about it, the Artisans Group and the other firms that we're working with Shape Architecture out of Colorado is another one that we do a lot of projects with and they're really committed to passive house they're going to introduce that to the client.

Tanya: And I would likely guess that a lot of the clients who aren't interested in pursuing that are gonna self-select away from those firms. And a lot of clients. That's where the light bulb is gonna go off. And they're gonna say, wow, we never heard of this. But yes, we want a healthy home. Yes, we want, you know, this level of design.

Tanya: Or maybe they've heard of lead or they've heard of, you know, solar panels and they're, you know, they're starting to think about electrification. They're starting to think about these healthy and sustainable goals for their home. But maybe they haven't quite stumbled on passive house itself [00:11:00] yet. Um, and so that's the point where they're gonna get.

Tanya: Enfolded into into this, this way of doing things.

James: Yeah, I think what, whenever I talk about. interest in passive house. 'cause I'm not in the industry as it were, I just keenly

Tanya: Hmm.

James: in it and to find my place in it. But I end up talking about it a lot to people who aren't trying to build homes. And the, the few inklings of, of, uh, recognition that I get are the idea of passive.

James: 'cause there was the whole like passive solar movement, which some made me older than me, people. Knew about it was like a thing for a while, particularly

Tanya: it, and it can be very confusing to people. And passive house does, you know, incorporate the concept of passive solar into the design principles. Um, so certainly there's a place for passive solar and there's a nice overlap. But again, like things like SEO on the marketing side, [00:12:00] we do get clients who are searching for passive solar.

Tanya: And they're coming to us and they're saying, well, we want a passive solar home. Um, because, you know, it's picking up the search term passive. And, um, and, and they're not, uh. You know, digging deeper to see that there's difference. And certainly, you know, if they get to us before the architect, which oftentimes if it's the client who's searching for a low cost solution or you know, a, a true prefabricated like full home or full modular home then, then I'm the one doing the explaining and, and trying to convert them.

Tanya: Um, but again, oftentimes those folks are. Really looking for something else. You know, they're, they're looking for a full solution. You know, they're getting a, a home shipped out to site with countertops and you know, all the siding on and all of the interiors on, um, or they're looking for [00:13:00] low cost or both.

Tanya: Um, so it's not often that I convert people on those calls, although certainly the goal.

James: Do you have any memories of times where it did actually work, where it landed, and if so, what would you say? I. Is sort of the most, I mean, I know that every conversation's different and every person's different, but like, roughly speaking, do you have any, any things that you know work it comes to explaining it?

Tanya: I think it really is just, is there already? A nascent idea in the person's mind that they want to pursue some kind of sustainability or some kind of high quality building. If there's like that little bit that's already there, then I can do something with that. Right? Um, there are plenty of conversations where, you know, they've said.

Tanya: I don't really care if it's certified. I just want like a nice performing home. You know, [00:14:00] and I don't, I don't care about certifications, um, but I am concerned about the environment. And so those folks, they may not have heard of passive house and they may not get, they likely won't get a certified passive house from us.

Tanya: Um, but they likely will get a passive house. It won't be certified,

James: Right.

Tanya: it'll, it'll perform. Um, you know, and so, so typically, um, yeah, if I, if I can start down that path with someone and introduce them, they get pretty excited about the concept. Definitely. And then, um, the nice thing about our solution is because we've already pre-designed to a passive house standard, it's really great if a client does come to us directly, a homeowner, um, or a building owner, and.

Tanya: They get invested in the idea or they are invested in the idea, but maybe they don't know. Um, a designer who can design a passive house standards or maybe they don't have a builder who's. Familiar with passive house. And so our solution, one, we have [00:15:00] pre-designed plans. So they could just take our pre-designed plans and they don't even have to hire an architect and get their home with our prefabricated package.

Tanya: Or we also have standard details that are extremely fleshed out, connection details. All of the different panel types that we can feed directly to the architects. Um, so if you have a new architect who's just getting into passive house design and they wanna really streamline that process. Say they're taking on their first project.

Tanya: The client really wants passive house, but they haven't designed one before. They just plug and play our wall details and our roof details and our connection details into the design, and they're able to know that this is gonna meet passive house without having to do a whole lot of work on the back end.

James: That's very cool. Very, and anything you can do to help. Take away some of the complications, I think is definitely gonna a long way.

Tanya: Absolutely.

James: something you said was, I think it's really interesting that [00:16:00] the, or it's really lovely that the sustainability and the high quality meat, you know, like if you were gonna spend all the money in the world, you.

James: You're kind of still building the same house that you would spend if you were trying to build the healthiest house. Like it's, they converge in a way that I think is very beneficial.

Tanya: The other really wonderful convergence about prefabrication offsite fabrication is that we're also passing on, you know, we have, we have some presentations that we give fairly frequently, and we are passing on a lot of those same benefits that the end user gets out of their home to our workers and our employees.

Tanya: Um, so those folks who are in our shop, they're also experiencing health and safety and comfort by being able to work inside in a climate controlled environment. You know, not only is your product climate controlled, but. You know, I think it's, it's, um, [00:17:00] pretty hypocritical to care about the environment, but not about the people who are living and working in it.

Tanya: Right.

James: Yep.

Tanya: so there's a really nice, um, juncture there too, of like. When you're hiring collective carpentry to build a home for you, um, you're not only caring about the sustainability of trees and air and land and water, but you're also you know, showing care and compassion towards the, the folks who are doing the labor.

Tanya: I.

James: That's a really beautiful and important point and

Tanya: And I don't think that's emphasized enough too in the industry. You know, it's, it's all about environment, environment, environment. But why are we taking care of the environment? Well, some of us are purists and we just love trees more than we love people. Um, but I, I would like to think that a lot of us are also caring for it because we care about each other.

James: Well, we're nature too, right? Like we're all, it's just, we're all connected and,

Tanya: Exactly.

James: Yeah. No, that's, that's great. And like, I mean, I suppose it's I, same [00:18:00] as sort of looking at supply chains and. Being like, you know, is that

Tanya: Ethical. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

James: this end? It looks nice

Tanya: Mm-hmm.

James: uses less energy, but at that end it's destroying whatever.

Tanya: Yeah. And I also, I don't like to get too lofty with it, right? It's like sometimes I hear these, you know, people banding about, uh, we're, we're saving, saving the planet or making the planet a better place, one home at a time. And it's like, yeah, that's great. And, and we are aiming for that. And I think our company has consistently demonstrated that we are striving to build healthy homes for more people and for.

Tanya: People who are not the 1% or the 1% of the 1%, but, um, this is also a tough business. And, and there is a, a price premium right now oftentimes to build a passive home. And so we [00:19:00] are building some second homes and, you know, um, large residences. And is that, is that making the world a better place? Um, you know, uh, folks could.

Tanya: Just not build it all. Or they could build smaller and that would be great. And the argument, the counter argument is, well, they're gonna build it anyway, so we might as well build it. Well, and I think that's true too. But I do think that that, um, we should be striving to provide housing. For regular people and, um, and, and we are continuously looking for ways to make our, our solution and, and passive house solution and our specific offsite fabrication solution accessible to more people.

James: Nice. Yeah, I think, I think it's an, yeah, it, it works better for income housing too, because then you don't have to keep paying maintain [00:20:00] energy levels. You need to run the the thing, right? Like it's, yeah.

Tanya: Absolutely.

James: Cool. Well this has been great. You so much for the time to chat with me today. If you sorry, before we go, where can people find out more about you online?

Tanya: Um, so definitely check out our Instagram. It's collective under Sword Carpentry. And that is where you can find a lot of features of the projects that we are working on and have been working on. And then our website, collective carpentry.com. You are also welcome to email me Tanya, TANY a@collectivecarpentry.com or info at collective carpentry will also come to me if that's easier.

Tanya: So we'd certainly love to hear from any of the listeners out there. Happy to answer questions and be a resource to folks as they explore passive fast further.[00:21:00]

James: Perfect. Thanks for joining me today.

Tanya: Thanks so much, James. It was a pleasure.

James: You've been listening to Marketing Passive House. I'm James Turner, and I hope you'll join me again next time.