42 - Norman Garcia - Passivhaus Philippines
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James: Hello, and welcome to Marketing Passivhaus, the podcast where we hear from architects, designers, builders, suppliers, owners, and other experts in the Passivhaus and high-performance building space. We'll be talking about what's working and what's needed when it comes to marketing buildings that meet or aspire to the Passivhaus standard.

James: I'm your host, James Turner, and today I'm joined by Norman Garcia, principal at All Climate Passivhaus and the founder of Passivhaus Philippines. Norman, welcome to the show.

Norman: Thank you for having me here James

James: It's my pleasure. I'm really looking forward to chatting with you today

Norman: Yeah, me too.

James: So before we get into it, and for people who are just meeting you for the first time maybe, could you share a little bit more about who you are, what you do, and how you started on your Passivhaus journey?

Norman: Okay. Yeah, certainly. Thanks for having me here. So I'm Norman Garcia. I'm the principal of All Climate Passivhaus a company that I co-founded with my wife in 2015, and we are based here in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. We specialize in energy efficiency consulting, energy modeling, and airtightness testing, also known as blower door testing. So how I started in Passivhaus.

Norman: I first heard of the word passivhaus around 2017 here in Canada when I read several discussion papers about Canada's plan to integrate energy tiers into the building code. So energy tiers means different le-levels. Canada joined the Paris Agreement the year before, 2016, and then published the Pan-Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change. In which on that paper it mandated that the model building codes be made stringent starting 2020 using the energy tiers. Okay. So when I first investigated, oh, what's this energy tier? Then I discovered that tier one, which is the baseline, that is the business as usual, okay?

Norman: And then tier two means 25% better than baseline, and then so on. Tier three means 50% better. And then the highest tier at least for residential, tier four, which means 60 per... 60% better than baseline. And then when I dig further into this different discussion papers on how each energy tier can be achieved, I found out or discovered that the highest energy tier four correspond to this building energy standard that originated in Germany, so which is the Passivhaus standard.

Norman: So I got intrigued. And then so when I read further on Passivhaus, I was completely blown away by the simplicity of its approach

Norman: It's based in science and it can be implemented in all climates.

Norman: And also another the reason why... Be-before when I-- me and my wife founded my our company, it's not known as All Climate yet. It's known as a very you know, co-common name. So when I when we diversified to Passivhaus, so I rebranded my company to All Climate because,

James: Nice

Norman: I-I'm both here in...

Norman: i'm re... we're residing in Canada, but I also have strong roots in the Philippines. So that's the start of why I rebranded to All Climate. And then I began upskilling my Passivhaus in uh, 2023 by completing the certified Passivhaus designer course with the Passivhaus Canada

Norman: And then that following year, I went to the Passivhaus Conference i-in Innsbruck, Austria in 2024, and so I met several people in the... which are years ahead of me in the Passivhaus industry or profession. And then 2025, I I became a Passivhaus construction verifier and then this early this year, I officially obtained the Passivhaus course provider accreditation by the Passivhaus Institute in Germany, so which mean, I can now t- spread the word of Passivhaus u- through through hosting certified Passivhaus courses and uh, proctoring exams so that anyone can become a certified Passivhaus professional like so many others.

James: Very cool

Norman: A- and then as a spinoff with that I founded the nonprofit organization the Passivhaus Philippines in 2024. So my goal is to really introduce the Passive House in the Philippines but in other parts of Southeast Asia. And I do that through using through webinars project spotlights. During our launching in August, I invited the architects of the of the first Passivhaus in Sri Lanka, and then on the following month, I invited the architect of the first Passivhaus in Thailand. and then after that, I, we hosted sever- several webinars on different building science topics. So that's , the journey I have so far a-at the moment.

James: Amazing. And what a difference, Winnipeg and the Philippines as far as climate goes.

Norman: It's, Actually it worked to my advantage because I can see the extreme, because here in, in the Philippines, it's common now to have an outdoor temperature of 35 to 40 Celsius outside. But here in Winnipeg, it's the opposite, but just turn that number to a negative number.

Norman: We experienced minus 40 Celsius here. It worked to my advantage because I get to see extreme environments. And, the reason I, why I fell in love with Passivhaus, it's these are two extreme environments, s- same principles apply. D- different pr- prescriptive methodologies, but the, the principle's the same,

James: Yeah

Norman: Very cold or very hot.

James: It's, it-- even though it seems daunting or it comes across as daunting to some people, it's it's actually the simplicity

Norman: The simplicity,

James: the same thing in both environments. You have to figure out how to get there, but it's the same core idea, right? The same

Norman: Yeah, that's correct. And

James: Yeah

Norman: thing is PHI Germany they're... they did the science for us, and now as we as Passivhaus advocates like you and myself and so many others are... Basically our job is basically to um, uh, strip down the, the science language and make it understandable to everybody.

James: Totally.

James: So

Norman: actually.

James: yes. Not

Norman: I find it more challenging than the scientific part. Scientific part, you can just crunch down numbers, do the energy modeling. But, the communicating is, it's an art.

James: Yeah. Yeah. There's less of a, a guidebook, right? There's

Norman: No guidebook,

James: no guidebook. Yeah.

Norman: Plus it's evolving.

James: I'm really curious just to go back a little bit in your introduction. I'm curious about your journey to going into the construction verifier. If you don't mind taking a little sidebar, what, what led you to go down that road?

Norman: Oh, because the construction verifier is one of the, the, of the black belts of certified Passivhaus designers. Other add-on badges are PHPP expert, and then one of which is Passivhaus construction verifier. So I just took it, I love I always loved learning.

Norman: Yeah. And I think g- becoming a construction verifier because it focused more on site execution,

James: Right

Norman: yeah rather than design. Because we can have the best design in the world, but if they are not communicated to the site crew the Passivhaus will be a f- a failure or will be more challenging.

Norman: So that's the reason I also took that course. Yeah.

James: Nice. Yeah I was thinking that exactly. It w- I think of that as marketing as well. It's like interior or internal marketing sort of on the job site. But at the same time you're the, the voice of Passivhaus to this crew of people, and it's up to you to explain how or why, to do this thing that's maybe not what they're used to doing.

James: And h- did you, have you had, did you have any experience using the verifier?

Norman: Now I'm working on It's an ongoing project right now. It's just started. Excavation just started last week. This is the first Passivhaus in Dauphin, Manitoba. It's about three hours away from Winnipeg.

Norman: Yeah, I'm doing the construction veri-verifyer services for this for this project,

James: nice

Norman: Yeah

James: And do you find that gives you more-- like you can affect more projects at that,

Norman: yes.

James: the higher up level? Not higher, but like one construction verifier can verify many projects, whereas one builder can maybe just work on one project at a time kinda.

Norman: That's true,

James: Yeah.

Norman: Once this certified Passivhaus gets completed, then it, it will be form part of my portfolio and hopefully spread the Passivhaus here in Manitoba because, yeah, e-even here in Canada, it's also, particularly in my province unlike other mature provinces like British Columbia or Ontario, there are so many Passivhauss there already.

Norman: But here in Manitoba, I hope this project will be my, call-calling card project

James: Nice

Norman: yeah, to inspire homeowners to that are planning to build their houses to build to the Passivhaus standard.

James: Great. Yeah, sa- same in New Brunswick where it's thin on the ground. There's not a lot going on, but there's a little and it's spreading slowly, I think. Okay, so now I- switching gears, let's talk about the Philippines. So what... Did you first think of Passivhaus just in context of Winnipeg or were you always kinda thinking of working both i- across the Philippines and in Canada?

Norman: Right now I, I'm really focusing in the Philippines right now. F- first reason is, Passivhaus really years ago, almost an, an unknown concept in in the Philippines.

Norman: Unlike here in Canada, it's it's m-many professionals have already heard about it. So I think there's more job to do in the Philippines and,

Norman: And yeah.

Norman: And as in order for me to to spread the Passivhaus advocacy in the Philippines um, launching this uh, 500 uh, Filipino Passivhaus uh, challenge,

James: Yes

Norman: Actually, this is not an original concept 'cause early this year when I took my train-the-trainer course with the Passivhaus Institute,

Norman: I met a fellow participant Ben Lear of EMU Passivhaus, which is a Passivhaus educator in the US. And so I went to their website. I'm always curious. I always love looking at websites of other Passivhaus colleagues. When I look at their website, I was blown away by their 5,000 Builders Challenge.

Norman: And if you go to their website, it says there, their goal is to train 5,000 builders and designers in Passivhaus principles by 2030. So they really been start doing this challenge for, more than what's it? 10 years now, more than 10 years, okay? So when I first saw their website, the 5,000 Builders Challenge, this was actually my aha light bulb moment

James: Oh, nice

Norman: really mesmerized by their campaign. So I said to myself that this EMU's challenge is so brilliant. So upon seeing that campaign I then messaged my... Ben Lear who then introduced me to their founder, Enrico Bonilauri uh, who I believe uh, uh, guested here at,

James: He has and

Norman: Marketing Passivhaus, okay? And then I asked permission if I can replicate or make a spin-off of this challenge for the Philippines.

Norman: And,

Norman: Several email exchanges and virtual meetings, so they generously gave me their consent and

James: Nice

Norman: offered sup-support to help me in the campaign. So

James: Wonderful

Norman: how that 5,000... 500 Filipino Passivhaus came into being

James: Excellent. So let's talk about, more about the challenge. Do you have, so we're launching it. This is part

Norman: yes,

James: the launch right now.

Norman: yes

James: we're recording in August, but this will be going in September.

James: What kind of things are you gonna be doing as you launch this?

Norman: So, how it works is, first, you just uh, complete the Passivhaus training and become a certified uh, passive house designer or consultant. So, , All climate Passivhaus will... are now uh, officially launching uh, our online courses, which is um, accredited by the Passivhaus uh, Germany.

Norman: So it's about 80 hours of online training on building science and Passivhaus principles. Plus we're going to have some mock exam to help them prepare for the exam. And then so after 80 hours, which would roughly around three months they will now be prepared to take the exam.

Norman: And once they pass the exam, and they get awarded the certified Passivhaus certificate, then that's that's Filipino number one. Okay. And then And then w- I keep repeating it until I reach 500 Filipino Passivhaus designers until

James: 2040. Nice

Norman: So if you s... So that's roughly 14 years from now. But take the average, give and take. So my, my goal is to train Filipino Passivhaus each year, or at least f- 50. 50, 50 times 10 years, so that's 500. But some years might be over 50, some years might be less than 50.

James: Nice

Norman: So that's the goal. So And then once my fellow Filipinos become certified Passivhaus, they can spread the advocacy. They spread the, this Passivhaus to their clients to their to the different building codes local governments, academe. So yeah. So that's the big picture.

James: Love it. Is there... We- we'll have a chance later to s- see a bunch of links, but just for the purpose of this moment, is there a, a landing page or a website address for the challenge?

Norman: yeah, the landing page is allclimateph.com/challenge.

James: Nice

Norman: yeah, so that's where they can find information on this challenge. Yeah

James: And is that gonna be... i- is your s- founding Passivhaus Philippines connected to this?

Norman: Yes, it is because we're also going to tie this into the efforts of Passivhaus Philippines because we're going to give discounts to advocates of Passivhaus Philippines. Yeah.

James: Nice.

Norman: Yeah

James: Nice. And will they become members then? I guess like that would be another, a good way to

Norman: yeah.

James: up the membership of the organization too, right?

Norman: yeah. Because Pas- Passivhaus Philippines, they're not, their organization is not a course provider, but they work on free webinars,

Norman: Advocacy with different local governments advocacy with different architects and engineer associations in the Philippines. So yeah, so it's more of an outreach. Yeah, but for the training part it will be done by All Climate Passivhaus, which is an accredited Passivhaus provider by PHI Germany.

James: Nice

Norman: the synergy between the two.

James: Yeah.

Norman: yeah

James: do you, are you gonna... I have so many questions. All right. I'll get my first one out of the way 'cause I'm just personally curious. Do you have to go often to the Philippines to do this, or is this actually something that you're able to do remotely?

Norman: Yeah I actually I plan to because in, in the Philippines right now, they are, the, the green building community is is is very progressive in the Philippines,

James: Oh, really? Nice

Norman: We have there the we call it BERDE, which is the Filipino word for green,

Norman: B-E-R-D-E.

Norman: It means Building for Ecologically Responsive Design Excellence. So that's the green building standard. And there's also another standard called ANZ/PH. That's the Advancing Net Zero Philippines. So yeah and those standards are developed by the Philippine Green Building Council, and I am coordinating closely w-with them regarding having a crosswalk with their standard and Passivhaus, just for our listeners who are not familiar with the word crosswalk is a, a document that says if you're a Passivhaus standard, basically you're just a few steps away on achieving this

Norman: Certification. Yeah. And then other green building standards in the world have already started th-that crosswalk. So for example, LEED, EDGE, and so many others in ter- and the Green Star, Homestar in New Zealand, and,

Norman: Star in Australia. So they have crosswalks already with the green building So yeah, so w- to answer your question if I'm going to go to the Philippines, yes there are planned conferences that...

Norman: and meetups there that that I plan to attend.

James: Nice

Norman: hopefully e-end of the year maybe I'll do this every year. Another reason for me to escape the cold weather here in Winnipeg.

James: Yes, definitely. That's-- yeah, so that, that kind of leads into the next question, which is I'm really curious to kn- yes. I'm really curious to know what kinds of things you're doing a- or what's effective to spread the word particularly in the Philippines, although maybe it's the same as other markets.

James: But,

Norman: Yeah

James: Are there... I get the sense that communities are maybe stronger in the Philippines, and so I wondered if there were, like, more down on the ground grassroots ways to spread

Norman: Yeah. Fortunate- fortunately for us because in the Philippines there are many professional associations for architects and engineers, and then each of them, they have different chapters. Some they have chapters in every major city. So I, And the good thing with those or associations, they they host regular professional developments to their members. So I'm so I'm pitching in to several of those associations to include Passivhaus in one of their programs or list of events. Yeah. And one approach that I, we're doing is as most of the... Passivhaus originated in Europe, in Germany, most of the current materials, I guess 80% of the materials I've read, at least based on my experience, are mostly geared towards cold climates.

Norman: Let's say there's not a lot of books on hot and humid climates, maybe

James: Right

Norman: Yeah. So when I took the training they're really geared towards cold climate, but obviously when we communicate the Passivhaus the Philippines or in the, in that region hot region, we have to customize it to the environment that they would understand

Norman: Okay?

James: Yeah

Norman: In cold climate Passivhaus education more focus is on thermal bridging, insulation there. But in, in hot climates I, I realized and also speaking with other veteran Passivhaus professional, I was advised to focus on, on um, shading solar, solar uh, uh, gain reduction not much more on thermal bridging. Yeah. So but the, the Passivhaus principles are should still be followed. Yeah. One of the... when we fir- during one of the first webinars we did the common question is "Will that work in the Philippines? It's so hot here." So because in the Philippines we have a very the...

Norman: We have The, the conventional approach there in the Philippines particularly ventilation is you make the house cross ventilate, so lots of windows. Yeah But and that's have been, like the one of the most basic principle that local designers in the Philippines have been em-employing. But I, as with climate change the, outdoor temperatures getting hot, so cross ventilation would not work anymore because you will be introducing humid air inside and which will inc-increase the, the cooling load of the conditioner. So that's the one of the concept that's it's still, I find of the common questions in the Philippines even to it's even asked by even by me-mecha-mechanical engineers in the Philippines. But yeah it's very similar here in in Winnipeg also when, especially when we introduce this this concept.

Norman: A, a lot of pushback, a lot of resistance to new ideas yeah still business as usual. But at least it's getting... It's the communication is across the Passivhaus community across the world. ma-many people are sharing their ideas. Like for example, Passivhaus Australia, Passivhaus in in UK, the Passivhaus Trust,

Norman: Been releasing publications on how to deal with with summer how to design an EE in hot and humid climate. Even uh, EMU Passivhaus, they do monthly webinars on dealing with hot and humid climate. So they're... So I'm gathering all this information and passing this to the Philippines. Yeah. So I'm not really here inventing the wheel. So yeah.

James: Nice. Wow. And good on you. S- someone had to do it, and you decided it would be you. I think that's really cool

Norman: I-- actually I'm stand-- I look at it I'm standing over giants above me. Yeah. So I'm just standing on their shoulders, right?

James: Right

Norman: the course providers ahead of me. So I'm fortunate that the Passivhaus community they're not selfish. They're fr-free to share. I actually haven't met a Passivhaus professional or Passivhaus certifier that are-- they're willing to share what they've done. Say if you can simply email them, "Hey what, what strategies did you do on this project that you did in so and and I al- yeah, most of them, they would reply enthusiastically, "Oh, I-- we did this and this." So yeah

James: great. Open source. It's got a whole vibe of... Yeah. Yeah.

Norman: Yeah.

James: Yeah, and I've found the same too since starting this podcast. Every person I reach out to is happy that it's happening and would love to talk about their experience, and yeah, I really like that.

Norman: That's why even if there's no certified Passivhaus in the Philippines yet, in this journey I don't feel alone.

Norman: Yeah, even if they're not from the Philippines they're happy to share their ideas. So I don't really feel alone,

James: Nice

Norman: in this, yeah, every- everybody's interconnected with the internet, email.

James: Yeah

Norman: yeah, I cannot imagine doing this 20 years ago.

James: No, me neither. Yeah.

Norman: yeah

James: Do you have someone-- Do you have a few people in the Philippines who you've already connected with who, who get it? Yeah. You've got some on the ground-

Norman: So r- at the at the moment, there are only five known Filipino Passivhaus designers in the world,

James: Wow

Norman: in the world. So I'm the fifth.

James: Congrats

Norman: So in 2023, 2024, I reached out to the first Filipino. His name is Emilio Chat De Leon. Fortunately, he's based in Toronto, so we exchanged a lot of ideas.

Norman: Yeah. So I reached out to him. Plus I also have a colleague which my... which was my classmate back in college in the, in, in the University of the Philippines. He's based in in New Zealand. He's a g- green building practitioner in New Zealand, Justin Valeria. He's my batch mate. So yeah, so we collaborated and exchanged ideas, and I also tapped several of my friends. "Hey, let's I ha- let's form this... let's start this movement in the Philippines to promote Passivhaus."

James: Nice

Norman: so that's how it came into being. So yeah.

James: That's great. I'm wondering about airtightness. It-- I feel like airtightness might be a kind of thing that people feel weird about, like being stuck inside this environment. Do you f- have you found that?

Norman: Yeah, that's a good question. Airtightness industry is almost non-existent in the Philippines.

Norman: Building airtightness in the f- from what I've researched, okay I may be wrong, but based from what I've researched the air- the blower door test in the Philippines are are not really done in the Philippines to measure the energy performance of building, but more they do airtightness blower door test in the Philippines to test the fire integrity of the building.

Norman: So but it's, yeah, fire integrity because fire to prevent the spread of fire from room A to room B,

Norman: R- rooms need to be airtight. So in, in the Philippines, that's the current application of, the blower door test. So not yet it's not yet done for purposes of to measuring energy performance. What I did is since I'm a blower door tester here in Winnipeg, I sent a complete set in the Philippines, so it's already there for the waiting... at, at least it's already there. And I have yeah. And I've partnered with a, a comp- with a local company to do the boots on the ground for me.

Norman: Then I'm gonna, I'm going to provide the technical support. And of course, when should there be the first Passivhaus should certified Passivhaus in the Philippines already I'll personally fly to the Philippines to do the

James: Of course.

Norman: myself.

James: Nice. Yes.

Norman: At

James: R-

Norman: the equipment is already there.

Norman: I don't have to carry it.

James: That is good.

Norman: Yeah

James: it's good that they are doing blower door tests for some purpose, right?

Norman: For other purposes,

James: they... It's not a completely foreign concept. It's it's just switching the angle of "Hey, you know that thing you're doing? You could also do it for this." And it's

Norman: actually, that's one of the communications strategy that we've been employing. So

James: Oh, nice

Norman: yeah, you can also use passive air tightness testing to measure energy performance, not just to measure fire integrity. Yeah.

James: And do they use the same... Is it the same

Norman: Yes. Sa-

James: Like the same red setup with the fan and

Norman: same red blower door, same equipment, so

James: Nice. They just have to measure different things or put it on a different door,

Norman: yes,

James: Yeah.

Norman: Yeah.

James: Yeah.

Norman: Yeah

James: you would think someone would've gotten curious and just been like, "What happens if we put it on the front door instead of just the interior?"

Norman: Yeah.

James: Yeah

Norman: So yeah, and if you look at theee local green building code in the Philippines also, airtightness is really not there.

Norman: Yeah, which I don't-- I'm not surprised. E- even here in M- Manitoba, it's, airtightness is still voluntary. Yeah, it right is still voluntary. It's still, airtightness here in Manitoba is maybe a few years away from becoming mandatory.

Norman: So I'm not surprised in the Philippines. But that's one of the advocacy that of we're going to spread in the Philippines. If you make your building airtight, the, the, the classic analogy, the Passivhaus Institute is using the co- coffee mug, right?

Norman: If you...

James: A thermos

Norman: Yeah, the thermos. But in, in the Philippines, we do it differently because the, the

James: Right

Norman: coffee mug. The, the coffee remains hot in a few hours because it's airtight, it's insulated. But in the Philippines, to make it more relevant, we use sports bottle,

James: Nice.

Norman: Okay. So okay you pour cold water there in the morning, go to your hike favorite hike, open the sports bottle 1:00 p.m.,

Norman: and you still have cold water,

James: Perfect

Norman: tha- that- that's Passivhaus principles at work.

James: That's great.

Norman: just apply it to buildings.

James: Knowing your audience, right? Knowing...

Norman: origin, so

James: Yeah. What about-- Yeah, I was wondering about if the humidity...

Norman: oh, yes.

James: for people inside their house being like, "Ah, I don't wanna feel-"

Norman: Yeah. It's very-- if you n-next time you visit Asia, drop by the Philippines. Oh, you, you'll-- the moment you step outside the airport you'll immediately sweat.

James: Right

Norman: it's more than 80%, 90% y-y-humidity. It's there, And it doesn't go down. Maybe at n-night time it's still high, 60, 70%, but it's relatively high, at least in, in Manila, in the capital of the Philippines. And there are only few cities in, in the Philippines that are-- that get in, in the night. For example, Baguio City, Tagaytay City, but humidity is still high. Yeah

James: So d- could you sell Passivhaus as a humidity-proof homes?

Norman: That's the the me-messaging, one of the messaging that we've been including in the webinar. Oh, one more thing. On the-- speaking of that humidity about the HRV or the,

Norman: Of or energy recovery ventilator. I-in the Philippines, one of the challenges ERV has been existing in the Philippines, but only for commercial.

Norman: For residential use, it's completely not being practiced.

James: Right

Norman: Yeah, we've been communicating will control your humidity, and so on. So yeah. So that's what of-- o-o-one of the few new, quote-unquote, "new ideas" that our local professionals in the Philippines are trying to learn, and hopefully they would accept.

James: That's great. Yeah. It makes me think of how in, in the US West they're now talking about smoke tight, like Bronwyn Barry used that term

Norman: smoke tight

James: become a- an ongoing pain point of houses where the, the wildfire smoke is just

Norman: true

James: your living conditions intolerable. So

Norman: And

James: barri- and Michael Ingui in New York talks about the bugs, like blocking out bugs 'cause that's like a, a pain point there.

James: And so the humidity

Norman: In the Philippines, one of the pain points that we also raise is because w- in, in Manila, we don't have, obviously we don't have wildfires there, but we have very bad outdoor air quality. Okay, so our pain points is okay, separate your interior from the outside completely,

James: Right

Norman: because our air right now, so many pollutants, pollution from those fossil fired vehicles and buildings. So

James: Yeah.

Norman: pain points that we are communicating,

James: your living room not be as if it was in the middle of a highway kinda.

Norman: That's great.

James: Yeah.

Norman: n- also, it's also common in the Philippines to have houses near hi- near busy roads. So we're also communicating, okay, if you have Passivhaus, the, the, the... it will be less noisy. So you'll have you'll sleep better. So yeah.

James: Nice. Wonderful. This has been great and I really look forward to seeing how your launch goes and how m- we'll have to connect again and have you on once you've got your first Passivhaus,

Norman: Yes.

James: builder or designer,

Norman: Yeah.

James: first house.

Norman: And the first house, yes, that's the goal,

James: The big one.

James: Wonderful. So before we go where is the best place people can find out more about you online?

Norman: Yeah, the-- please go to our website, allclimateph.com, and you'll find our advocacy on how we can support the local Filipino architects and engineers to becoming a Passivhaus designers and consultants. And for the advocacy part our website is passivhausph.org, to to learn more about the nonprofit organization, Passivhaus Philippines, and how we work with different stakeholders to advance the advocacy of Passivhaus

James: Nice. Is that passivhaus.org the German spelling?

Norman: Oh, German spelling, just like marketing

James: like the podcast.

Norman: Yeah, the Passiv spelling, yeah.

James: Controversial decision.

Norman: yeah. I think it's, I love the, the G- the German spelling 'cause u- upon reading the original spelling you would know it refers to the original Passivhaus,

Norman: Framework

James: Yeah. Great. All right I'll include all of those links in the show notes as well. And yeah, thank you so much for joining me today

Norman: Thank you, James. And thank you for using this platform to launch the 500 Filipino Passivhaus Challenge

James: My pleasure. Here we go. 500 Filipino Passivhaus Challenge. You heard it here first.

Norman: Yes.

James: Thank you so much.

Norman: Thank you so much

James: You've been listening to Marketing Passivhaus. I'm James Turner, and I hope you'll join me again next time