10 - Brian Pearson - Studio Pear
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James: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Marketing Passive House, the podcast where we hear from architects, designers, builders, suppliers, owners, and other experts in the passive house and high performance building space. We'll be talking about what's working and what's needed when it comes to marketing buildings that meet or aspire to the passive house standard.

James: I'm your host, James Turner, and today I'm joined by Brian Pearson, architect and co-founder at Studio Pear. Brian, welcome to the show.

Brian: Thank you. Great to be here.

James: Excellent. So before we get into it, and for people who are just meeting you for the first time, could you share a little bit about who you are, what you do, and how you started on your passive house journey?

Brian: Yeah, sure. Well, I'm an architect and I'm based in Oakland, California. That's right adjacent to San Francisco. It's kind of the, the Brooklyn of San Francisco. Some people say.

James: Nice.

Brian: I have been interested in architecture since I was a very young person, and I don't. Can't tell you why, but I love construction sites, I guess.

Brian: But being clumsy a little [00:01:00] bit, maybe it's better not to be on the site for me. And so I kind of, you know, took a circuitous route and a little bit later in life went to architecture school, and just had of very, very interested. We used to call it environmentalism, but you know, now most people say sustainability, and I've always been interested in, in, in that aspect of, of the world, I guess, you know, how we respect our environment.

Brian: You know, went to the University of Oregon, which is very, very strong in that department interest wise and education wise. And that's actually where I first encountered passive house. So that was about 2003, I think. And but you know, there's just a ton of things in architecture to, to learn.

Brian: Even when you get outta school, there's just a, a massive amount to, to learn on the job. And it didn't really get back to being dedicated passive house until I got my my credential CPHD in about 2018. So,

James: Nice.

Brian: the focus of my work has always [00:02:00] been mostly single family residential. Mm-hmm.

James: Awesome. So the thing that first can like drew you to my attention was a graphic that you made for air tightness in buildings. And I thought maybe we could talk about that if you want. I don't know if you want to read it or I can. Yeah.

Brian: Yeah. I just, I've put that graphic together recently. You know, there's a lot of talk about how passive house can benefit occupants. You know, at its core, everybody, most people know that passive house was kind of centered around comfort, but we, we, in this changing world or encountering more and more issues from, from.

Brian: Pollution, wildfires, all sorts of issues. Heat domes, et cetera. And I think passive house can really plug in to, to help people with that, to, to enhance resiliency of buildings. So just focusing on some of the core metrics of passive house and how they, they, you know, how they [00:03:00] benefit occupants.

Brian: That, that's kind of was the purpose of that graphic in some ways.

James: Nice. Yeah, I really liked, like, I liked it. You started with comfort. So I'll, I'll just read it out just for, you know, 'cause this is an audio only podcast. It's, I won't read the, the subtext, but just the, the titles. Comfort, energy efficiency, ventilation efficiency, which I really liked the use of efficiency in that context.

James: Pollutant control with an awesome, scary looking biohazard graphic. I like that. Vapor control. Acoustic control and building durability and I think that, yeah, I've never, I just haven't seen, I hadn't seen a, a graphic that just kind of captured all the, the, the features,

Brian: Mm-hmm.

James: In one shot before. So.

Brian: Yeah. Well, you know, when I studied at University of Oregon, a lot of the professors there had been, had been educated in Lou Kahn's office, and I think Lou Kahn was really famous for this idea of like, if, if something, [00:04:00] trying to have design elements that serve multiple purposes

James: Hmm.

Brian: and that, that's just another kind of idea behind this graphic is like, okay.

Brian: People think of air tightness for what reason? Right? Well, you get all these benefits from, from air tightness.

James: Hmm.

Brian: so, so it becomes even more valuable or critical to the built environment when you think of it. You know, you're not gonna dispel it because, oh, well I don't have pollution issues in my, you know, we're not affected by wildfire smoke here, so I don't need air tightness.

Brian: Right. Well, here's six other reasons you're, you're gonna want it.

James: Yeah. Yeah. Building durability took me by surprise too. I, I hadn't thought about the connection between those two. What's do you want to talk about that a bit?

Brian: Yeah, I think, I think it helps building durability, you know, it goes with and combines with that vapor control a little bit. Just helping, keeping kind of the buildup. Of vapor or condensation out of our buildings. So air tin helps slow down the movement of air, and [00:05:00] Air is a primary carrier of, of Vapor.

Brian: So you know, that helps the, the building envelope. Last longer if it's not under stress from, from, from moisture or mold. But it also helps in some ways with

James: Oh.

Brian: What I call the push to pull. So pressurization, depressurization that you find in a building. And it's just that kind of. Pushing and pulling on the envelope.

Brian: If, if, if you have a less airtight building, you might have that kind of happening just right at the, at the building sheathing or the the finish on the outside of your building. So, so it just helps it, you know, over the long term. I think it's a smaller aspect, but it, when we start thinking about resiliency and moving forward in our environment, longer lasting buildings are gonna be have a greater value.

James: Yeah. Well, it, it struck me as something that was a good marketing angle that I hadn't really heard before. Because if you're, I mean, if you're building a single family home, presumably that's something that would appeal to you. You, the house [00:06:00] builder, you know. Like, as you know, if you're buying a house, it that's already been made, that might be a DI mean, maybe, maybe people would think of that, but I, imagine specifically if you're building it, you're wanting it to last, and I, I, I dunno.

James: Have you found that that comes up with clients?

Brian: I, yeah, I do have clients that, you know, they don't express it, but they might say, well, we are gonna renovate this house for you know, our retirement. This is gonna be our forever home.

James: Hmm.

Brian: they use terms like that. So, know, they're, they're, they're looking at the 40 year, 50 year duration, but maybe they're gonna pass it on to their kids too.

Brian: So you know, looking at a, at a hundred year life span for a building. is what we should be considering? I think,

James: Hmm.

Brian: so much of it's been tied to this kind of economic model of the 30 year mortgage. So,

James: Right.

Brian: we have to kind of break out of that and, I, and see greater value in, in the durability and longevity of our buildings.

James: Yeah. And so do you find [00:07:00] that people like resonate with, with that? If you're talking to clients, like, is that, is that a thing that can kind of pique their interest when you're.

Brian: I think it, I think it adds to things. I don't think it would be the overwhelming aspect for, for most people. I think, like I was saying, if you can justify something with multiple, points of value, then, then it, it increases it their interest.

James: Right, right. Well, speaking of that, so what's, I don't know not what's your, what's the mix, but I, I'm curious to know about sort of like, do you build only passive house houses or do you. Like, how does that work?

Brian: Well, that's the goal. Yeah.

James: Nice.

Brian: find clients only interested in passive house or to, you know, win people over to passive house. But at the, at the moment, I'm, I'm a young firm, we'll say

James: Hmm.

Brian: I just, I started maybe three years ago. I was myself and then two years ago kind of. Transitioned, or sorry, a year ago, transitioned the firm into [00:08:00] with a partner, into a larger kind of enterprise in a sense.

Brian: So we're still doing small scale work

James: Hmm.

Brian: the Bay Area, San Francisco area, we, there's a lot of remodeling, so it's

James: Right.

Brian: we're not doing a full house necessarily. Might be an addition. You might just be doing a kitchen remodel. And, and that's kind of work. I don't want to exclude from my practice. I think 'cause I, 'cause, you know, part of my interest as a architect is the service and helping improve people's living situation.

Brian: That that's the goal ultimately.

James: Right. And passive house with is a very natural fit to that goal, I would think.

Brian: Yeah, I definitely agree. Mm-hmm.

James: Yeah.

Brian: even, even if it's not full passive house components and, and, and principles of passive house into, into these works, the designs is always in at the forefront for me.

James: Nice. Do you find that conversations have you had conversations where [00:09:00] you've brought up passive house with clients like the, I I'm, I'm always curious about that, that intersection between the one who knows and the one who doesn't.

Brian: Yeah. I'm starting to get people coming to me who already know passive house or have some sense of it. So that's, that eases the conversation.

James: Hmm.

Brian: you know, they've already sort of, the pump is primed if, if you will to kind of them, get them further along with that.

James: Right,

Brian: some people are. You know, they don't, they don't have any awareness of, of building technology or anything, you know, they

James: right.

Brian: want, wanna, an an extra bedroom or a functional kitchen or whatever.

Brian: So,

James: Right.

Brian: and they, they, a lot of 'em appreciate the information. I don't know that all of 'em would be like, oh God, please, let's do that. Right?

James: Mm-hmm. '

Brian: cause some, some people their focus is just where it is, but.

James: Right, right. So another aspect that I find interesting is that it's not [00:10:00] just directly. Clients that need to be brought on board. There's also you know, other people in the family of clients or even like builders, right? Like you have, you have to know people that know how to do it and, and are not gonna sort of subvert your, your mission.

Brian: I think the biggest challenge in my mind is, is builders, to be honest.

James: Hmm.

Brian: you know, they've been doing it a long time and, and we don't have any sort of system that's a kind of cohesive education. So most people know what they know from who they used to work for or

James: Right,

Brian: worked, what's worked for them in the past.

Brian: And, and sometimes that's great. Sometimes it's kind of. You know, mis they've been misled or something, if you will.

James: right.

Brian: and it's sometimes hard to get people to adapt and change and try new things. So I personally think the builder is the critical aspect. It's also

James: Hmm.

Brian: of the cost. You know, it's like.

Brian: anything new has the potential of scaring [00:11:00] somebody and, and driving up cost,

James: Yeah.

Brian: or, or the other side is just, even if they're interested in it, it's a new thing. So it takes time to, to, to learn and adapt. Once they've done it three times, then, then they can do it much more speedily. And, and the greatest cost, at least in California, is your labor.

Brian: So anything that you could do. To, to, to smooth over the, the labor aspect of building helps bring down costs and make it affordable for people.

James: That makes a lot of sense. And Yeah. I, I see sort of passive house for trades trainings, you know, here and there on the internet, and

Brian: Yeah. Yeah.

James: it seems like a,

Brian: that it's really critical and I, I think even any, anybody who, even if they're not interested in passive house, the high performance building aspect of it.

James: Hmm.

Brian: is super important. And, and for most contractors in, in, in Bay Area, at least San Francisco area it's a marketing tool. You know, I

James: [00:12:00] Huh.

Brian: before I was getting into passive house, some of this stuff, some of these membrane products and stuff, that was just.

Brian: The rigor on the high custom, high end. It's just like, okay, you're paying for a higher quality product, here's how it's being built. And it was just in some ways a way to distinguish, you know, a market, a marketing distinguishing aspect, I guess for builders,

James: Interesting.

Brian: but.

James: So like the, sort of the opposite where it's. Pa, like passive house could be the status symbol rather than the, the thing that you're sort of earnestly trying to push them toward. It's like,

Brian: Yeah, I would hate to think of it as becoming a status symbol,

James: yeah.

Brian: you know, I mean,

James: Mm-hmm.

Brian: it more prevalent in the market I think is good. It is just trying to grow awareness about it and how to do it is a good thing. And then, and then, you know, you have the early adopters, right? The people can spend money on it, and that helps bring down the cost [00:13:00] because.

Brian: You get more, more access to products, more training, more knowledge and, and hopefully the ultimate goal, and the people who really need it, I would say are, are people in the middle class or, or lower lower income brackets.

James: Right. Yeah. It's, that's, I.

James: I always think that too, like the, the, the lower down you go, the, the more beneficial it would be to have a house that operated. For, you know, less money or,

Brian: Yeah, well, less money for sure. You know, that's a greater percentage of your income if your utilities, right,

James: mm-hmm.

Brian: in the lower income strata. But also a lot of times these people live in less pleasant areas, to be honest. You know where I am, we have the third, I think it's the third largest port.

Brian: On the West Coast. And so that's a lot of trucking in that, those neighborhoods, so they're, they're exposed to a lot more pollution, dust, all sorts of problems that, you know, a tight envelope with filtered ventilation would benefit them [00:14:00] greatly.

James: Right, Yeah. Hmm. And I guess that's a hard, like they're, it's not that they're not marketed to, it's that they're not, then you'd be having to market to sort of developers and, yeah.

Brian: right. right. And then that, you know, that gets back to our original question about the status symbol aspect of it. So sometimes you see those, you know, green buildings but they're more the kind of high end condo buildings or whatever that can, can, can do the upfront cost to develop it and then market it.

Brian: And get some of the, the benefits of that, whereas, like, affordable housing developers I've talked to are just like, if it add, if it adds 2 cents, we can't do it. You know, they just, they're, have a cap on how much money, how much funds they can raise and, and expend on, on a development so.

James: Interesting. So then that would lend itself to the, the regulations, like the code [00:15:00] moving up sort of. so.

James: they'd be obliged to build to a certain standard and,

Brian: right, right. Which is, you know, right now in California there's a, a lot of legislation going on trying to make development more accessible, trying to make it cheaper. So right now there's actually two bills going forward. One is. To put passive house in the building code, or the original intent was to make it as a, a a voluntary aspect.

Brian: But if you did a, if you did the passive house certification, then you wouldn't have to do the state mandated energy forms. So essentially for, for larger buildings it would be, replacing one energy model for another. And so then you would save on, on, on design costs. Right.

James: Right. '

Brian: cause you wouldn't have to duplicate.

Brian: You wanna do one for the certification, one for the state building code. And then conflicting with that is another bill, which is to [00:16:00] basically freeze at least on the residential side. All future, at least for two, two code cycles, six years freezing any up updates on the code cycles there. So that, means we can't, you know, improve the building code at all.

James: Right.

Brian: suggesting, making these, you know, mandated aspects and that the idea there is to. Make it more predictable for builders and keep costs down, but I think it's a bad bill because it reduces the public's interest in protecting our health and welfare.

James: Right, right. And it doesn't look at buildings as trying to make the last a hundred years and

Brian: Yeah, it doesn't put

James: yeah.

Brian: the, the, the, the occupant center to the building. It puts the developer's pocketbook, the center of

James: Right.

Brian: which is, is a, is a totally valid issue. You know, if you don't have money, you can't build. But you know, we are, we can't, we need to balance the two.

James: Yeah, Yeah. I I find it interesting how much market passive house is [00:17:00] at, at once, the sort of vanguard of, of building science. But at the same time, it's this really sort of democratic, like human centered. Attempt where the, the, the performance is the performance. And it doesn't matter what boxes you ticked.

James: If being in the space doesn't, you know doesn't bring that, like the comfort, if the, if it meets the co the, the passive house standards, the comfort will be there, right? Like that's just.

Brian: Yeah, I mean the metric I, my understanding how it was developed was basically that kind of the micro and the macro, right? Like you're saying, it's like the human-centered comfort making a, a space that is comfortable people live in or work in. And then the macro, which is, you know, trying to overt climate change and lower our carbon, our carbon output through building efficiency and.

Brian: So, yeah,

James: Nice. So I'm assuming you also talk about it in your, [00:18:00] your private life, your non, your non-working life, and do you have any any sort of instances where you, where you broke through, where someone's like, oh, I get it, or anything like that, do you? No.

Brian: just in casual conversation. That's a good question. I. I, I, nothing, I don't have any anecdotes like that offhand. I, I can call up at the moment, so yeah.

James: fair enough. yeah. I, I, I think that it would be nice for this podcast to eventually have a, a collection of, you know, people's aha moments that they've experienced, so

Brian: right.

James: then people can say, oh, maybe I could create that in my, my life. So,

Brian: you know, some of the things that in my chart there, like the, the sound control, like those are maybe some aha moments for people.

James: hmm.

Brian: When you, when you mention like, oh yeah, if you live near a busy freeway or something that, you know, air tightness or can, can help with lowering down noise pollution.

Brian: And then, you know, a lot of people are, are hyper aware about wildfire. So

James: Right.

Brian: talking about how to add ventilation. [00:19:00] 'cause right now. You know, the building code doesn't have any real thing about just that, that sort of what, what passive house terms. Hygienic. Ventilation, that's filtered. We use kind of the, people just use the bath fan basically.

Brian: That

James: Yeah.

Brian: you know, doesn't have the balance or the filter filtration on it,

James: Right. It's just sucking out air and forcing a vacuum to suck in air through the cracks, basically.

Brian: right. Yeah. From who, who knows where.

James: Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. The sound control was one of the, one of the ones that clicked for me. I, I, I had just not thought about it, I suppose, but it's just so much nicer to be. A, a, a calmer, quieter place. The, the feeling just, you know, waking up in the morning is nicer and we live on a, a street with a hill nearby that people [00:20:00] race their engines to get up the hill, to get to get into the countryside.

James: And Yeah,

James: I could certainly benefit from some sound control.

Brian: yeah, yeah. When I, I've gone to a tour in some passive houses, and when people walk in and they, they notice that right away, like how. they don't perceive it, but they just feel, they notice the calmness of it, like you were mentioning. You know, they don't know exactly what creates that, but you know, that they feel that kind of sense, so,

James: Yeah, I, I, I've, I think that the way to market passive houses is to put people in them. Just

Brian: yeah.

James: as many over and over and over again. Like a theme park or something. Yeah what about ab? Have you any objection, countering advice or things where you've been like, well actually, right.

Brian: Oh yeah. I mean this is definitely, mean, the pushback from homeowners typically is, you know, cost. [00:21:00] So, oh, well we don't need that. But then also builders usually that's like. are the people that get a little bit more furious, to be honest. you know I had a project I was doing in Napa this county right near this town of Napa, and it's a pretty hot climate.

Brian: So I thought the exterior installation would, was be super beneficial in the summer, mostly actually than, than the winter.

James: Right.

Brian: and so, you know, talked to the homeowner, they agreed to it, but the. Builder was just furious, says, what are you trying to do? You're trying to create a thermos, you know, that's, it's silly, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Brian: And it's like, well, yeah, we're trying to create a thermos in some sense. Yes, because, you know, it's a hundred degrees or whatever for several days. You, wanna protect yourself from that. So,

James: yeah. That's interesting 'cause I thought the thermos was an analogy that could break through because it can keep your coffee hot or your, you know, iced tea. Cool.

Brian: Yeah.

James: Which is what you want in the house, right? [00:22:00] Like

Brian: Yes. Right, right. Definitely. And unfortunately, they, they saw it as a negative where it's just, you know, excessive. You didn't

James: Right, right.

Brian: It goes beyond, beyond human needs, I guess.

James: Right. Well that's, yeah, I guess that, so that's another interesting aspect is just how do you market something that seems excessive but is actually like, probably the excessive thing would be sweltering in the heat and whatnot. Or where up, where I.

James: am, you know, freezing through the winter, or both actually, we get the, we get the best of both worlds.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah,

James: yeah, Nice.

Brian: yeah.

James: Well, this has been Great.

James: and I'm definitely gonna link to your graphic in the show notes. Before we go, where can people find out more about you online?

Brian: Probably the best place is to just go to the website that's Studio Pear, P-E-A-R dot U-S. And you can look at our, [00:23:00] our work there. I'm on LinkedIn at Brian Pearson

James: I.

Brian: Yeah. So,

James: Awesome. Well, perfect. Thanks for joining me today.

Brian: yeah. Thanks for inviting me. A pleasure to talk to you.

James: Same. You've been listening to Marketing Passive House. I'm James Turner, and I hope you'll join me again next time. I.